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 ID 1:EB072480 Waterford, MI 
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:14 pm
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Problems, problems and more problems...

Looked at your reads and thought there was a problem...

... repair time!!!!

rdesrosi wrote:
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB072480 --CHART MEMBERS ONLY--

All,
Please ignore alerts for station 22 ID 1:EB072480 in Waterford, MI.

This morning my GMC-200 fell off my window sill and the case cover flew off. I didn’t have time to replace the cover before I left for work so just placed it back on the sill and then noticed the high counts and red icon on the map once I got to work.

So the counts are now higher than my sites NORM so it will be alerting until I get back home and replace the cover this evening.

This brings up a good question; should I leave the cover off or drill some holes in it to increase the sensitivity? I was surprised how much higher the readings got with just the cover off. Went from average CPM of about 14 up to 36 or so in just an hour.

Harlan, is there a way to reset my sites data if I do decide to leave the cover off, or at least place a note to show why the readings increased all of a sudden?

-Randy

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Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:49 am
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:18 pm
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Location: Waterford, MI.
Nope, no repair needed. Definitely seeing a slow rise at my house as confirmed by several additional counters (GMC-300 and two Atomic Dave Pancake meters). The other three meters are showing a slight and steady increase over NORM which appears to have started on January 17th, also showing a spike on January 13th peaking at 2:50pm. The true rise started back on December 24th, 2014 around 4am, yikes!

Not sure what is up yet as this is an indoor GMC-200 sitting on a window sill (no filter) in the exact same spot since I moved to the new house in December of 2013. The only change was replacing the UPS battery back the first week in December, which was done in less then 5 minutes so no report interval was missed and only a slight drop in readings for that interval were noted.

The other station near me (1:EBDFE579) is not showing the same pattern (but is showing some peeks in the afternoons mostly) so not sure what to think yet.

I might try a test with a very active test source in the next few days just to be sure but from what I am seeing right now this looks legit.

Any thoughts?

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Station ID 1:EB072480 Waterford, MI, US
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB072480
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Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:26 pm
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And before that. Saw the 13th spike... "Dave?", "Dave's not here..."


Figured the movement and power loss accounted for the crazy reads...


I would air the house out and seal the outdoor foundation vents if it has a crawlspace...

Are you painting? If so be careful of indoor pollutants as even the ammonia from latex stuff can be a problem with the reads, your gear and you too...



And carpet? If you cleaned the carpet it will produce gasses for a couple of days afterwards...

...New carpet will show elevated reads for several weeks after installation.




...good to hear from you and don't forget that beaners eat beans...

For teck support refer to...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV8zNQSQT8M

... good luck and stay safe! :-)


rdesrosi wrote:
Nope, no repair needed. Definitely seeing a slow rise at my house as confirmed by several additional counters (GMC-300 and two Atomic Dave Pancake meters). The other three meters are showing a slight and steady increase over NORM which appears to have started on January 17th, also showing a spike on January 13th peaking at 2:50pm. The true rise started back on December 24th, 2014 around 4am, yikes!

Not sure what is up yet as this is an indoor GMC-200 sitting on a window sill (no filter) in the exact same spot since I moved to the new house in December of 2013. The only change was replacing the UPS battery back the first week in December, which was done in less then 5 minutes so no report interval was missed and only a slight drop in readings for that interval were noted.

The other station near me (1:EBDFE579) is not showing the same pattern (but is showing some peeks in the afternoons mostly) so not sure what to think yet.

I might try a test with a very active test source in the next few days just to be sure but from what I am seeing right now this looks legit.

Any thoughts?

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Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:53 pm
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:18 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Waterford, MI.
Readings starting to come back down to near normal as of last night. Still not sure what was causing the slow but very noticeable rise but it started dropping quickly. No change in the interior of the house, no painting or even moving of furniture around. The house has been relativity the same since I completed the move in December of 2013 so this is very concerning.

Even more concerning is that the other private station near me that is outdoors on a filter was not showing an increase and that stations average readings are lower then mine, seeing that mine is indoors and not on a filter this is even more of a concern.

I am going to take by pancake counter and do a sweep outside the house to see if there is anything external going on there that would cause this. Other then that I am at a loss to explain this.

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Station ID 1:EB072480 Waterford, MI, US
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB072480
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:59 am
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Location: Illinois
I just studied your stations graphs and compared it to mine (South Beloit, Illinois) after all I am straight West from you. Please compare my stations highs yours. You will see the same patterns on yours only shortly after mine in time frame.

As for why the station next to you does not show the same pattern, I am not sure. I had a New Mexico station setup sometime ago that had a graph that looked much like your neighbors graph. The New Mexico stations graph always looked like the same pattern all the time, no real noticeable pattern with weather storms.

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MY OUTSIDE RADIATION MONITORING STATION:
South Beloit, Illinois - GMC200 Outside on HEPA air purifier, ground level, facing West.
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB5A139C


Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:00 am
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Yea I see your point...

Looks like it has been elevated for some time.

Before we start let me say that I'm not disputing your reads in any way. I'm simply trying to eliminate simple things that could account for the increase, one thing at a time. Each time you eliminate something you get closer to the answer you need.

View ALL the stations below on 2 years for this comparison. Ignore the spikes and concentrate on the average "long term" reads for this look...

...This is how to find fallout with a simple GM counter as the spike will linger in the way of a increase in average reads for extended periods after the deposition that comes with a real release.


Looking at your charts set to 2 years, you had averages around 16 - 17. Then there was a spike on Aug. 23 2013 and your averages jumped to 19, another spike on Oct. 9 2013 and the averages again jumped to 20-22. This was after the fall off of the window sill correct? If so, no guarantee that the tube or other components did't slip out of calibration.

This could account for the increased averages and would not be deposition if this is the case.

Kinda like dropping a guitar and knocking it out of tune it may still play well by itself but will not be in tune with the rest of the band so to speak. As most GM tubes are simply a wire stretched between two points this is a possibility so I included it in this post.


Take a look at your neighbor to the west that is also indoors. Obvious problems at first with the voltage pot on his/her 320 but after getting accurate reads the averages are around 16-17...

http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AC526C4EE.3


And the outdoor station in Novi, MI is showing around a 18 average even after some obviously false spikes making this graph a little hard to read...

How do we know these spikes in Novi are false? No sustained increase in average over time. Which means no deposition and that is the increase we would expect to see if these spikes were real. Especially when considering the two back to back spikes of over 1000 cpm. These spikes are absolutely inaccurate and we can know for sure simply by looking at the averages afterward. No increase in average count means no deposition means no fallout means no spike from radiation.

Naught into naught = naught X naught equals? not radiation... :-)

http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEBDFE579



My indoor site in Mint Hill, NC also averages 16-17

http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB702D3F



OK so we know you have a increase in AVERAGE over the norm of 16 - 17 cpm which is something that needs to be addressed and understood.


Here's a few inexpensive moves you can make today to get you started.


Start by getting a Radon testing kit. Follow the instructions to the letter and send it off for testing. I'm not saying it's Radon but this test will not only prove or disprove this fact it will also provide clues to the daughter isotopes involved. It's inexpensive, comes from a independent lab and testing is usually completed quickly. As a side note you should also test your water...

Please post the results from this test as soon as you get them.

----------------------


Make sure the sun is not hitting the unit at anytime throughout the day. My backdoor has windows and my unit sits near it so I installed heavy curtains that block the direct sunlight completely from that area of my home.

As the seasons change so does the track of the sun so if the sun is hitting the unit during certain times of the day (maybe when you are not there to see it) due to a different track or the leaves not being on the trees, this could account for the increases.

Place a dark blanket over the window for a few days to see if the averages decrease or stay the same.

-----------------------

Get some canned air and clean the internals of your counter. Check for any damage. Check (I'd use a magnifying glass) that the wire inside the tube is not deformed in any way and there are no foreign materials inside the case.

Make sure there are no cracks or gaps/holes in the case and the cover.

Keeping the unit "totally stock" gives you a "one on one" comparison with the other indoor units throughout the country.


Also change the batteries using the same type even if you are connected to power full time. It may seem silly to change them but if they are charging incorrectly or more often than designed or even overcharging and producing gasses you may see both spikes and higher averages that are not actually occurring in the environment.


---------------------

And the big one!!!

KEEP the unit in the exact same location! DO NOT relocate it after cleaning it.
Keeping the unit in the exact same spot gives us the ability to see any real changes to the averages and spikes. Move it and you are starting over as all the reads up to that point will no longer be relevant.

-----------------


These actions will simply rule out easy to do things that could be upping your averages.


Again I really hope you don't have a problem and all indications are nothing has happened around you so if it is a prob it will most likely be inside your home or simply with your counter.


We are all here to help so contact me anytime and post your updates here so we can all see what happens and what (dates/times included) you have done to eliminate any chances of false elevated reads. By posting the information here you can help others that have problems like this in the future!

Read my other posts here:

https://www.netc.com/bb/search.php?keyw ... mit=Search


Stay safe, don't panic, eyes open...




KingCobra wrote:
I just studied your stations graphs and compared it to mine (South Beloit, Illinois) after all I am straight West from you. Please compare my stations highs yours. You will see the same patterns on yours only shortly after mine in time frame.

As for why the station next to you does not show the same pattern, I am not sure. I had a New Mexico station setup sometime ago that had a graph that looked much like your neighbors graph. The New Mexico stations graph always looked like the same pattern all the time, no real noticeable pattern with weather storms.

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Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:11 pm
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Watching your averages rise...


...Did you test for radon yet?
...Blanket over the window?


Novi looks fine as does Middleton, WI.

Let us know.

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Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:59 pm
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:18 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Waterford, MI.
Sorry, have not done a thing. Been busy working 70+ hours a week for the past month so no time for much of anything.

The GMC-200 has remained absolutely untouched for the past month and has been in this same location since December of 2013. The only thing i did to was turn on one of my pancake units to see if it also reads any increase over norm background and it does BUT i don't have that unit hooked up to my PC yet to record historical. I only turned it on a few times to see what it was reading and compared it to what it normally (if there is such a thing) reading. It is usually in the 40-60 range and lately it seems to be showing 50-70.

I know, not very scientific but with my current workload I don't have time to setup up with the NETC Free software at this time. I will eventually so i can at least see if the spikes match. IF they do then there is absolutely "something" affecting my reading that are causing them to climb.

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Station ID 1:EB072480 Waterford, MI, US
http://netc.com/chart/view.php?n=1%3AEB072480
Prepare, plan, stay informed and safe!


Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:17 pm
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There appears to be a sustained climb in average at your location. You won't hear me say this often but I believe you have a real concern...

1st: you did drop your counter so it is suspect...

2nd: if you are picking up the increase on a different counter (dave?) this would rule out the counter being dropped...



Things you can do now!
=============


Vent the house and take a new set of readings. I know (due to your location) it is a hard thing to do this time of year so just place a towel in the gap under the bottom of the door and open a window in the computer room for a while (to see if the reads drop over time).

After you close the window (close the heat vent and keep the towel under the door for a few days after the venting). If your reads drop and then climb back up, It's indoor rads you are reading...


Check out my latest info on this...

https://www.netc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1157

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Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:53 pm
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It's gotta be your counter...

...if not you are a high risk for Radon.

Need to get to the truth about this...

...Did you modify your counter in any way?

A radon test is a must asap (my opinion only)...

...Good luck and let me know.

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Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:15 pm
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