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 How do I know the readings I see are real? Help... 
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Disclaimer:

This post is NOT meant to prove or disprove any readings. The information contained here is intended to help you in identifying a real threat or a false reading and is not intended to predict, prove or disprove any radiation threat.


Hi everybody...


I've personally been privy to a few confirmed (and unconfirmed) false readings lately and felt I needed to point them out to help avoid the panic and conjecture that comes after these totally false and/or misleading readings.



Ill split these into individual posts to make this information easy to understand...



As I have no intent to undermine anyone's efforts to locate and measure the radiation in our environment. I'll conceal the locations in question for these examples.

All examples are current, active stations.

Happy hunting...

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Last edited by EB702D3F on Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:08 am
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Lets start with the obvious...

The graph below illustrates a problem with some of the 300 and 320 units...

...Some of these units have a problem with the voltage pot that controls the GM tube. Kinda like a musical instrument that is out of tune. Nothing wrong with the unit, it is simply not calibrating correctly and is out of tune so to speak. This is covered under the warranty for the unit and the company that manufactures it is very good about fixing or replacing it if you have this problem. A rare but real problem.

This graph illustrates this problem and can be easily understood. If you see this in a stations graph you can now know immediately what caused these readings.

This is a false reading corrected to a accurate reading.

Note that once corrected the averages are steady without crazy spikes or dips and is now reliable for this location.


Also note that if these readings were "real" it would have been time to "bug out" (leave the area!!!).

Important: How did we know that these were false readings? The operator was diligent in recording the type and location of the equipment. Without this simple information we could not know for sure. All readings should be disregarded on any independent station that does not provide a description of the counter and location of the unit!!!

This stations description

GMC-320+ Indoors, on windowsill:

Very smart to list these details and they should be required for any independent station!!!


Example of a voltage pot malfunction...


Attachments:
example1320error.jpg
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:36 am
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Example of a reading that would be lethal if it were accurate...


Notice the spike of almost 4000 cpm. I'm melting, melting...

How do we know these spikes are false? No sustained increase in average over time. Which means no deposition and that is the increase we would expect to see if these spikes were real. Especially when considering the two back to back spikes of over 1000 cpm. These spikes are absolutely inaccurate and we can know for sure simply by looking at the averages afterward. No increase in average count means no deposition means no fallout means no spike from radiation.

Naught into naught = naught X naught equals? not radiation...


Note that if these readings were accurate it would be time to duct tape the windows and doors and shelter in place as the reads are so high you would not survive long after a attempted escape.


The sites description does not indicate the actual problem but rest assured it is a false reading or we would see death on a massive scale by now. This spike was over a year ago there would be NO way to cover up the massive health effects from such a event, period...

There are documented spikes with some of these units after a simple power loss.


Example of a reading that would be lethal if it were accurate...


Attachments:
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:57 am
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And now for the controversial stuff...

Lately I've noticed that many operators are modifying their counters.

Example:

GMC 300E Plus attached to Holmes HEPA Filter


This particular incident happened recently and caused quite a unnecessary and unwarranted stir among social media outlets.

Throw all logic out the window with these stations.

No information from a modified unit can be relied upon.

Why you ask?

1) The counter is designed to be used indoors only but is placed outside usually in a plastic bag or other unapproved container for so called protection from the elements.

2) The filtration unit is also a indoor only device that has been modified in some way to keep it dry.

These units (the one I'm about to show you in particular) are not only inaccurate but are also dangerous to the operator that handles it and other people in the immediate area (family?) if they are exposed "after the fact".

This Orphan radiation source is by far the most dangerous exposure one can expect to get from radiation in our daily environment. And the operator is creating this stuff instead of guarding from it.


The magnets and other motor components in this unit are to blame as they are rare earth materials. These magnets can and will under the right set of circumstances, produce (very) hot particles.

As the filter unit operates these magnets and brushes rub against each other in the motor assembly to produce the connection required to turn the fan inside the unit.

Cobalt and it's cousins are the most radioactive materials in our common environment. These components are so common in fact that they are often dismissed as benign and not a threat when nothing could be further from the truth.

Cobalt is so radioactive that it is probably the easiest material to detect with a counter on the planet today. As long as these materials are used as intended they do not produce particulates (ingestion hazard) and are totally safe.

Any wind pressure that turns the filter unit fan faster or slower that the unit is designed to rotate will produce heat and cause gasses and other radioactive materials to be released into the environment. This is a created (orphan) source of radioactive contamination plain and simple.

Just as a windmill produces energy in the wind so does the motor on a filter unit when turned by the wind. These units are not designed nor are they intended to be placed outside in the elements. And there are MANY sound reasons for this. The most obvious is the fact that the motor components are overheated each time wind resistance is introduced into the filter unit.


So we can predict the "waves" of radiation not from the environment as a whole but from the environment around these units themselves due to wind, weather and simple wear factors.

Under NRC and federal law it is illegal to operate ANY device that even has the potential to produce orphan radiation sources.


I URGE the operators of these units to STOP using them ASAP.

Just for reference:

Another common example is the smoke alarm you have in your home. Smoke alarms contain americium, a very dangerous radioactive material!

Perfectly safe when used as intended but modification or dissemblance of a smoke alarm is prohibited under federal law because of the health danger involved with ingestion. NOT a problem until altered or tampered with.



Cobalt Orphan source example...

... this unit operated for around 1 year (according to the operator) before this very powerful radioactive release from the unit itself. The operator replaced the filter unit and the readings (although elevated) dropped to a believable level afterwards. This proves the source was the unit itself, not the environment in which it was supposed to be monitoring.

Conclusions? FALSE reading for the surrounding environment but TRUE EXPOSURE for the operator that handled the unit!!!!

And lets not forget that this unit produced false readings for the actual environment ANY time wind was forced through the filter unit.


Notice the spike in the graph below...

...cobalt, cobalt, cobalt and cobalt.


Attachments:
cobaltrelease.jpg
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:06 am
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Conclusions?

Every machine on the planet can have problems even if totally new.


Overall averages are what tells you if there was a release in your area or elsewhere and also explains a faulty reading. If the average count does not increase, I'ts not a legitimate reading.

And most importantly!!!
Never modify a instrument used to monitor something as important as radiation. The life you save could be your own.

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Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:15 am
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Oh yea and one more thing...

... Outdoor HEPA filter GM combos ...



I believe this experiment to be a complete success!!!

Important work was done by everyone involved!!!!

Our children will be safer thanks to all of you!!!!

It proves a source of radiation exists that's in everyone's environment right now...

...and not only does it prove another way to avoid it, you've opened up some other things to think about, and test for, when it comes to the presence of powerful radioactive sources contained in our common household goods!!!!!!


Great work!!!!!!!!!!!


Shut em down...


Stay safe, don't panic, eyes open.

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Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:42 am
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So you're saying that manufacturers are using nuclear grade cobalt isotopes to make cobalt alloy magnets? Can you provide any documented evidence of that statement? I've searched high and low and have not been able to find anything to support your claim. You referenced Americium in smoke detectors and there's no doubt about it. Americium has an MSDS stating the radioactive nature of the elements. Regular Cobalt does not. Smoke detectors have less than half of a microgram of the radioactive Americium. Can you imagine if what you said was true. Let's see those magnets weight atleast 5-10 grams. And anyone can buy them online or at the hobby store. So, I highly doubt they are using the nuclear medicine grade isotope Cobalt 60 in the manufacturing of alloy magnets. If that were the case then every kid who played with an electric car would be glowing by now. Same magnets in those toys. Not to mention that our Geiger counters are within 6 inches of the fan motor magnets on these units yet we don't see any rise in ambient rads. Heck, I have a source beta emitter that sets off my counter at 5 feet. So surely a gamma / x-ray emitting magnet would drive the counts so high we'd be getting a knock on the door. And I can tell by the weight of the air filter that they haven't added concrete or lead shielding. You do know that not all cobalt is radioactive right? That it's in vitamin B12? Please stop stating your theories as facts. The station who had the raising counts issue eliminated a bunch of variables at one time so there's no telling what the cause was. I've had my air filter setup outdoors going for 2 years now. My witness Geiger agrees on the background radiation. It's on the other side of the house.

You know this reminds me of a few years back. I kept finding a beam of gamma radiation going thru my bedroom. I chased it and tried to figure out where the source was. Sometimes it was there and sometimes it was not. I had all kinds of wild ideas of what it could be. But, it wasn't until several months later that I found out my neighbor was going thru radiation therapy. She was the source. Not a breach in some x-ray machine shielding (my top theory at the time).

I appreciate everyone who participates here including you. And I don't like going off like this but I'd read enough and had to speak up. So for what it's worth, I'm sorry if I offended you. The point I'm trying make is that radiation is tricky enough without people causing panic with unproven theories.

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Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:52 pm
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HuH??? ;-)

Why would any company use something that expensive in a $24.99 indoor filter unit? I've seen these filter units as low as 14 bucks so if they are using that grade of material, it's a conspiracy to beat the band (and all the guitars in it).

They do use all the less pure grades and sometimes (more like whenever they can) the cheapest and most available ingredient they can find... If it's made out of the country (that's a given with these units) there is absolutely no telling what is actually contained in these parts or where the magnetic rare earth materials even originated.



What these budget parts are actually made of or how safe they are to modify and experiment with is a more serious matter...


...Here's some proof.


Did you see the spikes in the almost 8000 cpm range in the chart above? Recon that sucker was radioactive or does a simple GM counter lie. It's too simple of a instrument to lie about this filter unit and then show normal reads immediately after being removed from the source. For the few days it was off any air filter unit, this same counter recorded normal reads for the entire time period!


This is a simple process of test and elimination right?




I want to be absolutely clear about this...

These materials were released over time due to the wind and weather elements pressuring this unit. Overheated/worn brushes and the magnetic motor core produced particulate matter inside this unit and it was seen in spades by the very counter in use to read this type of material. After the counter was removed it returned to normal!!! A solid HIT for orphan radiation.


So NO this cobalt and the other radioactive crap that comes with a cheap indoor filter unit is not weapons, medical or other "pure" grades of these substances.

They are cheap, dirty, 1/2 cent elements that have proven themselves to produce radiation as shown above, in a real life experiment and in real time.



Don't expose yourself to the very things you are trying to avoid in the natural environment. May not be happening to you now but it could very well happen tomorrow from a simple malfunction...


We need to "come to grips" with these facts and adjust our lives and experiments accordingly.


---------------

We'll keep the light on for ya, if you play with the fire that burns on a molecular level, it may be a waste of electricity.

--------------


Always feel free to respond, I am here to help (and learn) anytime and (as if you couldn't tell) I enjoy these healthy debates!!!

...they may save a life. :-)




Lee971 wrote:
So you're saying that manufacturers are using nuclear grade cobalt isotopes to make cobalt alloy magnets? Can you provide any documented evidence of that statement? I've searched high and low and have not been able to find anything to support your claim. You referenced Americium in smoke detectors and there's no doubt about it. Americium has an MSDS stating the radioactive nature of the elements. Regular Cobalt does not. Smoke detectors have less than half of a microgram of the radioactive Americium. Can you imagine if what you said was true. Let's see those magnets weight atleast 5-10 grams. And anyone can buy them online or at the hobby store. So, I highly doubt they are using the nuclear medicine grade isotope Cobalt 60 in the manufacturing of alloy magnets. If that were the case then every kid who played with an electric car would be glowing by now. Same magnets in those toys. Not to mention that our Geiger counters are within 6 inches of the fan motor magnets on these units yet we don't see any rise in ambient rads. Heck, I have a source beta emitter that sets off my counter at 5 feet. So surely a gamma / x-ray emitting magnet would drive the counts so high we'd be getting a knock on the door. And I can tell by the weight of the air filter that they haven't added concrete or lead shielding. You do know that not all cobalt is radioactive right? That it's in vitamin B12? Please stop stating your theories as facts. The station who had the raising counts issue eliminated a bunch of variables at one time so there's no telling what the cause was. I've had my air filter setup outdoors going for 2 years now. My witness Geiger agrees on the background radiation. It's on the other side of the house.

You know this reminds me of a few years back. I kept finding a beam of gamma radiation going thru my bedroom. I chased it and tried to figure out where the source was. Sometimes it was there and sometimes it was not. I had all kinds of wild ideas of what it could be. But, it wasn't until several months later that I found out my neighbor was going thru radiation therapy. She was the source. Not a breach in some x-ray machine shielding (my top theory at the time).

I appreciate everyone who participates here including you. And I don't like going off like this but I'd read enough and had to speak up. So for what it's worth, I'm sorry if I offended you. The point I'm trying make is that radiation is tricky enough without people causing panic with unproven theories.

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Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:39 pm
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EB702D3F wrote:
Yepper indeed...

...Cobalt and varying cousins are used everywhere in our everyday lives and are very common. Cobalt (and it's varying cousins) are some of the most radioactive sources in our daily environment and on this planet in general.

VERY strong Gamma and X-Ray emitters.

Most everything magnetic has some form of cobalt in it. That's what makes these components powerful enough to be used for (in this case) electric motor parts in the first place.

We are surrounded with possible sources of contamination. As long as the devices are used as intended there is no danger of ingestion or other contamination. Play around with something that contains them and you risk exposure.

The FCC and other warnings on most items are signs that there is a possible source of contamination. Most people don't think of the dangers of these products as they are so common in the modern world.


Most all electric motors have the potential to release radioactive contaminates in the form of particulate cobalt and it's cousins.


And just for reference...

Your smoke alarm contains enough americium to make the whole family sick or even dead from exposure if disassembled or used in a manner inconsistent with it's intent. This is one of the most dangerous materials known to man but...

...Special design and manufacturing techniques eliminate any potential threat when used as directed..



If a person is exposed to these materials they can even contaminate everyone they come into contact with for days after being exposed. The problem is ingestion (through lungs and/or swallowing) from particulates so as long as the device is used as directed, the material remains trapped in the unit and is not a potential ingestion hazard.



As my granddad used to say...

"It's what you don't see that gets you".


Are you still skeptical?


Actual example:

Take a look at a real release from a filter unit that malfunctioned recently. Since the operator was using it with his counter you can get a real world idea of the radioactive contamination potential of these common household items.

Not to mention false readings for the broad environment that created unnecessary panic for many people seeing it that were never in any danger (if they were more than a few yards away from the unit).

https://www.netc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f ... 6621#p6621


I URGE ANYONE USING THESE FILTER RIGS OUTDOORS TO STOP USING THEM ASAP!!!

Contact me anytime...

Stay safe, don't panic, eyes open...




There are several things that can go awry with these Geiger Counters. I've read of a failing GM tube in the GQ's showing runaway readings sporadically. Similarly, I once had a pancake sensor going out on my survey meter. The readings would go wildly out of control sporadically until I cycled the power. Took some time to diagnose and confirm the needed repair. But until I did it was quite unnerving. I've also experienced a software glitch some time back on my GM-300 which showed similar readings to the St. Charles station. After months of flawless operation I might add. Once we identified the issue the admin fixed the glitch and removed the false readings from my chart history.

In this case, since his spikes have stopped, I think more than likely it may have been caused by electromagnetic interference from the failing fan motor on his air filter. Especially if the motor was brushed vs. brush-less.

The reason I say that and that I do not buy into a contaminated magnet failure is simply this. If the magnets contained radioactive material the readings would be more consistent rather than spiking, and the GM tube would have been detecting the rads prior to a failure. Just like with the red glaze on fiesta-ware. The uranium releases radiation even though it is sealed in a glass like glaze. If the magnets contained a gamma or beta emitting source then the GM sensor should have detected it as soon as he setup his rig.

As for the outsourced materials in the air filter units. I agree that we don't know what they have in them. However I doubt any significant radiation emitting products would make it thru customs given the heightened security at our ports. When you say modifying the unit. I'm not sure what the St. Charles station had done but for mine and others I've seen the only modification was to cut away the plastic grate protecting the filter element so that my GM-200 could be placed up against the air filter. And though my setup is outside it's protected from wind and rain by being placed on an upstairs covered balcony inside a courtyard. So, even when we get blowing rain my equipment doesn't get wet.

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Outside >> Air Filter,2nd Floor,GMC200, Indoor >> Window Sill,1st Floor,GMC300
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Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:15 pm
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Hey... You really shouldn't remove any data as the malfunction signature may help someone else down the road... Just note it and leave it for future readers.

Nuf said...



The reason that I posted this information in the first place is that it is in fact derived from the actual reads that I followed throughout this (these) entire (panic stricken by some) incident(s).


I try not to waste any time on this stuff as it is critical information that everyone should know. Wouldn't waste any of my personal time otherwise...


These reads are "real world" proving a actual release of materials from the unit(s) in question.

...I think if you take some time to read this information and understand the results you will see what I'm discussing here is true.



This ain't fiesta wear, this is real world air testing...


Tell that fiesta ware stuff to the GM counter that read over 7000cpm after the air filter unit finally failed...

What happened after the counter was removed from the filter unit? 25cpm or less for days after this problem. It wasn't the counter, it was INFACT the filter unit that produced this contamination, bar none and bet the farm on it...


This may be a horse to water thing but I hope not...


Let me know what you think...


Lee971 wrote:
$2
EB702D3F wrote:
Yepper indeed...

...Cobalt and varying cousins are used everywhere in our everyday lives and are very common. Cobalt (and it's varying cousins) are some of the most radioactive sources in our daily environment and on this planet in general.

VERY strong Gamma and X-Ray emitters.

Most everything magnetic has some form of cobalt in it. That's what makes these components powerful enough to be used for (in this case) electric motor parts in the first place.

We are surrounded with possible sources of contamination. As long as the devices are used as intended there is no danger of ingestion or other contamination. Play around with something that contains them and you risk exposure.

The FCC and other warnings on most items are signs that there is a possible source of contamination. Most people don't think of the dangers of these products as they are so common in the modern world.


Most all electric motors have the potential to release radioactive contaminates in the form of particulate cobalt and it's cousins.


And just for reference...

Your smoke alarm contains enough americium to make the whole family sick or even dead from exposure if disassembled or used in a manner inconsistent with it's intent. This is one of the most dangerous materials known to man but...

...Special design and manufacturing techniques eliminate any potential threat when used as directed..



If a person is exposed to these materials they can even contaminate everyone they come into contact with for days after being exposed. The problem is ingestion (through lungs and/or swallowing) from particulates so as long as the device is used as directed, the material remains trapped in the unit and is not a potential ingestion hazard.



As my granddad used to say...

"It's what you don't see that gets you".


Are you still skeptical?


Actual example:

Take a look at a real release from a filter unit that malfunctioned recently. Since the operator was using it with his counter you can get a real world idea of the radioactive contamination potential of these common household items.

Not to mention false readings for the broad environment that created unnecessary panic for many people seeing it that were never in any danger (if they were more than a few yards away from the unit).

https://www.netc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f ... 6621#p6621


I URGE ANYONE USING THESE FILTER RIGS OUTDOORS TO STOP USING THEM ASAP!!!

Contact me anytime...

Stay safe, don't panic, eyes open...




There are several things that can go awry with these Geiger Counters. I've read of a failing GM tube in the GQ's showing runaway readings sporadically. Similarly, I once had a pancake sensor going out on my survey meter. The readings would go wildly out of control sporadically until I cycled the power. Took some time to diagnose and confirm the needed repair. But until I did it was quite unnerving. I've also experienced a software glitch some time back on my GM-300 which showed similar readings to the St. Charles station. After months of flawless operation I might add. Once we identified the issue the admin fixed the glitch and removed the false readings from my chart history.

In this case, since his spikes have stopped, I think more than likely it may have been caused by electromagnetic interference from the failing fan motor on his air filter. Especially if the motor was brushed vs. brush-less.

The reason I say that and that I do not buy into a contaminated magnet failure is simply this. If the magnets contained radioactive material the readings would be more consistent rather than spiking, and the GM tube would have been detecting the rads prior to a failure. Just like with the red glaze on fiesta-ware. The uranium releases radiation even though it is sealed in a glass like glaze. If the magnets contained a gamma or beta emitting source then the GM sensor should have detected it as soon as he setup his rig.

As for the outsourced materials in the air filter units. I agree that we don't know what they have in them. However I doubt any significant radiation emitting products would make it thru customs given the heightened security at our ports. When you say modifying the unit. I'm not sure what the St. Charles station had done but for mine and others I've seen the only modification was to cut away the plastic grate protecting the filter element so that my GM-200 could be placed up against the air filter. And though my setup is outside it's protected from wind and rain by being placed on an upstairs covered balcony inside a courtyard. So, even when we get blowing rain my equipment doesn't get wet.

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Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:06 pm
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